Outdoor Ontario
Photography => Ontario Birds => Topic started by: cairnstone on January 17, 2014, 06:42:05 PM
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There are 3 immature Northern Goshawks in Carleton Park, Brampton at the moment.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/12003179214_97b9a47ecc_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7380/12003642366_831f8d6519_o.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/12003123563_a15d38babb_o.jpg)
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I think these are Cooper's Hawks (belly and undertail coverts looks unstreaked as far as I can see, no thin white line bordering the black bands on the tail).
/Thomas
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Wrong for once Thomas. These are goshawks unless they are on steroids and have learned to mimic goshawks. Definately goshawks. I see Cooper's Hawks every day.
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The branches are strategically placed to make it difficult to determine the streaking, so I'll have to trust your live observations.
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Here is a typical immature Carleton Park Cooper's Hawk for comparison. Note the much thinner bill, smaller body and much fewer speckles on the back. Also, less of a distinctive "eyebrow"
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5545/12004163416_ec64459c78_o.jpg)
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There is a heavily streaked one among the 3, but in flight you can plainly see they are all goshawks.
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I tried to look for them this morning, but they weren't around.
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hard to tell w/o seeing its tail or the eyebrow and stuff.
i assume they were big birds vs coopers
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I went there this morning and saw 2 of them before 11AM, one chased another away, then flew back toward me, here are 2 photos of this one, considering its size, shape, color of chest/belly, I am very sure it is a Cooper's.
I will post my previous Goshawk immature photos for comparison.
Calvin
North York
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Goshawk immature.
Calvin
North York
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Goshawk immature.
Calvin
North York
Hey Calvin,
Are any of your pictures from Carleton Park? The image quality seems to vary a lot.
I went this afternoon for an hour but had no luck.
For those who did see them, were they north or south of the bridge?
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No, the Goshawk photos are my stock photos, taken on 2009 and 2013, in Vancouver area, BC. One was sunny day, the other was heavily foggy. Just for comparison.
This morning the Cooper's Hawks were chasing from south to north, one pass the bridge and disappeared, the other one turned back to south, into the woods.
Calvin
North York
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No, the Goshawk photos are my stock photos, taken on 2009 and 2013, in Vancouver area, BC. One was sunny day, the other was heavily foggy. Just for comparison.
This morning the Cooper's Hawks were chasing from south to north, one pass the bridge and disappeared, the other one turned back to south, into the woods.
Calvin
North York
OK. I like the shot with the food. Looks like you got nice and low for that one.
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OK. I like the shot with the food. Looks like you got nice and low for that one.
Thanks. I dig a hole on the snow and sat in there. lol
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I'm going to have to disagree here, as I believe these photos show Cooper's Hawk. First of all, the first two photos show a bird with a very full crop, making it look much larger and bulkier.
Goshawks show heavy brown streaking on most of the underside with a buffy backround. Cooper's show fine, dark streaking ending higher on the belly, against a white background. There are certainly exceptions, but I think the photos lean much more towards a Cooper's Hawk appearance.
Cooper's hawk can certainly show the extensive white on the back (e.g here (http://1b9m613yi0qa0r935crzosac.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/coopershawk2immature_3.jpg)). While goshawks do have a mottled back, I can't find any photos of goshawks showing the contrasting white patches like this bird.
The eyebrow is certainly an indicator for Goshawk, but Cooper's and Sharp-shinned often show heavy eyebrows as immatures, and in any case the eyebrow, on at least the first two photos, is not particularly strong.
The legs do not look large enough to me to be Goshawk.
I can't comment on what you've heard and seen (i.e. there may well be 1 or more Goshawk present), but I strongly believe these photos show Cooper's Hawk. Goshawk is a very rare bird in the GTA except on migration, and 3 birds in a small park is likely completely unprecedented.
Keep in mind size and bulk can be very misleading for accipiters. Female Cooper's Hawk average about 65% heavier than males.
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Hello,
I agree with Thomas' initial assessment (and Reuven's follow-up) that these birds are Cooper's Hawks. Several strong points have been mentioned already including the breast/belly streaking (which is the leading indicator for me) as well as the nature of the tail bands which are too thick and straight (and lacking in white border) to suggest Goshawk.
Good Birding,
Iain
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I apologize Thomas for dismissing your ID of this bird. I am including a much better photo of what I believe is the same bird. The tail points to Cooper's as mentioned.
Having said that, I am still certain I saw a goshawk last week. At one point I saw three hawks acting excitedly. The vocalizations of one of them indicated to me goshawk. I listened to many recordings and it was a clear match. I am very familiar with the vocalizations of Cooper's Hawks since I have been living with them for years.
This is the most unusual Cooper's Hawk I have ever encountered for several reasons:
a) It is stoic and unafraid of humans. I photographed it this morning then went for a coffee. I came back more than an hour later and it hadn't moved.
b) The other birds are not afraid of it and carry on their business within a few meters of the hawk. I am accustomed to seeing them flee or freeze when a Cooper's Hawk flies in.
c) The Blue Jays squawked at it for about 10 second and then lost interest.
d) I could barley fit it in the camera viewfinder and it seemed bored with me. It must be the largest Cooper's I have seen.
Thank you all for your input and knowledge.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5496/12208963696_321b8f19b3_o.jpg)
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(Sorry, I didn't realize there was a second page to this thread when I wrote this post!)
Reuven has done a great job of pointing out just what to look for. Your photos are clearly of Cooper's Hawks. We usually have incredible 'up close' views of both species as they fly by on fall migration during our Hawk Watch along the Scarborough Bluffs. The underside markings of a typical juvenile Goshawk is very heavy streaking which generally runs the length of the body right down to the tail and includes the leg feathers. The overall underside background colour is buffy and not white as in the photos shown. As mentioned Goshawks would be quite a rare sight in Toronto, except during migration periods. Don't think I've ever seen one reported on this board outside of that time.
Walter :)
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(Sorry, I didn't realize there was a second page to this thread when I wrote this post!)
Reuven has done a great job of pointing out just what to look for. Your photos are clearly of Cooper's Hawks. We usually have incredible 'up close' views of both species as they fly by on fall migration during our Hawk Watch along the Scarborough Bluffs. The underside markings of a typical juvenile Goshawk is very heavy streaking which generally runs the length of the body right down to the tail and includes the leg feathers. The overall underside background colour is buffy and not white as in the photos shown. As mentioned Goshawks would be a quite rare sight in Toronto, except during migration periods. Don't think I've ever seen one reported on this board outside of that time.
Walter :)
except for the one i apparently photographed in December (http://outdoorontario.net/birds/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13536) at two separate visits at the Spit (http://outdoorontario.net/birds/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13518) :)
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Cairnstone is it possible your 3 Coopers were upset and/or chasing away a Goshawk? (therefore hearing the calls?)
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That is my thinking BetCrooks. I believe I saw 2 Cooper's and 1 goshawk. I have seen the Cooper's drive out intruders before. Interestingly, I have not seen the resident adult Cooper's Hawk since these events. It was a reliable daily sight and I have posted photos of it here recently.
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except for the one i apparently photographed in December at two separate visits at the Spit :)
Hey Richard,
:oops:, forgot you had recently seen and photographed a Goshawk at the Spit, my bad! Two sightings of likely the same bird still make it rare though.
Just a thought - As we had only counted 6 Northern Goshawks this fall at the RMG Hawk Watch, and I believe other Watch site counts were down as well, it's likely that this species held out and migrated later than normal. It could be that cairnstone did in fact 'see' and hear a Goshawk, who knows.
Walter :)