Outdoor Ontario
Wildlife Reports => Toronto Wildlife => Topic started by: Kin Lau on January 29, 2008, 03:21:45 PM
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I've seen various news references and the sightings map also indicates that there's possibly a Puma/Cougar in the Rouge Valley region.
Does anyone here know anything more?
Ontario Puma Foundation - http://www.ontariopuma.ca/ (http://www.ontariopuma.ca/)
There's also a Cougar warning for Gatineau Park as well (http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/bins/ncc_web_content_page.asp?cid=16297-16299-10170-49685-49889-49894-83405&press=87405&new=yes&lang=1)
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good im glad im not the only one thats heard of it yes i do believe that there is one in there
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Here's a fairly recent article: http://lfpress.ca/perl-bin/publish.cgi? ... ets_nature (http://lfpress.ca/perl-bin/publish.cgi?x=articles&p=221428&s=pets_nature)
Iain
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I've spent many a day in the Rouge valley, both fishing and birding. It's nice to have such a place nearby to enjoy.
The one time that I, along with about 6 other fishermen, can confirm that we saw a cougar in the Rouge Valley was 2 days after one had escaped from the Toronto Zoo. We were fishing a large pool on the West Rouge at Twyn Rivers Rd at the base of a large landslide and saw the cat walking along the upper ridge heading north.
Apart from that, I have never seen any trace of cougars in the Rouge Valley. That being said, I don't think it's impossible to have one that would enter the area, given the way that the city and pathways are expanding and the water avenue's and their surrounding watersheds are responsible for deer now entering the city with greater frequency.
Personally, I think it would be neat to see one and be able to get a picture of it. From a safe distance of course.
Attila
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I would find any local sighting of a wild cougar VERY hard to believe. I'm sure that the vast majority of Ontario sightings are not accurate. I'm sure in most cases the people believe what they are reporting, but have misidentified their subject.
...can confirm that we saw a cougar in the Rouge Valley was 2 days after one had escaped from the Toronto Zoo....
This is a much more likely scenario.
It would be interesting to have a pool. Which would come first...photographic or hair evidence of a cougar in the GTA, or similar proof of an Ivory-Billed Woodpecker in the U.S. south.
David
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Based on the most current scientific research the Ontario Puma Foundation's status of the North American Puma in Ontario is endangered.
Does anyone else find this line hilarious?
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...also, that's an awful lot of reported sightings in the GTA given the lack of evidence. What are this self-appointed foundation's criteria for accepting reports? They don't seem to mention that beneath their map, rendering it worthless.
One MNR scientist's explanation for not being able to confirm sightings: "While his attempts (to confirm cougar sightings) have proved fruitless, Rosatte said he isn't surprised given an adult male cougar will travel in an area of as much as 1,000 square kilometres."
This is a nice and tidy excuse, except the Rouge isn't really all that big or remote. Why hasn't anyone been able to confirm these sightings here, given the VERY high visitor traffic, thorough breeding and winter bird surveys, deer censuses, TRCA employees, yada yada yada.
Why no hard evidence? No scat? No tracks? Just anecdotes from fishermen following zoo escapes.
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I don't know if I find it hilarious, but there is a reasonable explanation for the Cougar being considered endangered, at least here in Ontario.
In 1978, the eastern subspecies was declared
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The funny part of the line was the fact that it states that the Ontario Puma Federation's status for the cat is endangered. As you probably know, being a wildlife studies student, the Ontario Puma Federation's declaration of the at-risk status of the eastern cougar is worth about as much as my own. That is, nothing.
And I'm not questioning that you and your mates saw a cougar in the Rouge. You also noted that it was immediately after a zoo escape. So, your sighting is about as useful as me using the sighting of an escaped chimpanzee in my backyard as evidence for their occurence in the Greater Toronto Area. That's all.
The fact is, there is no hard evidence regarding cougars in the Greater Toronto Area. That's all.
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A few years ago I saw a budgerigar in my backyard for several weeks. And then it disappeared. I wonder if a cougar ate it... :wink: :roll:
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Perhaps if someone is strongly opinionated or confrontational they could try a little diplomacy and keep their diatribes to themselves. The spirit of this board and others like it is friendly and a sharing of information. When a general discussion is ongoing don't make it personal. I for one tend to disregard posting by people that get personal and have to right. My 2 cents worth.
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...And I'm not questioning that you and your mates saw a cougar in the Rouge. You also noted that it was immediately after a zoo escape. So, your sighting is about as useful as me using the sighting of an escaped chimpanzee in my backyard as evidence for their occurence in the Greater Toronto Area. That's all.
The fact is, there is no hard evidence regarding cougars in the Greater Toronto Area. That's all.
I think you missed his point. I believe he was making it clear that legitimate* sightings of cougars are very likely escapees, rather than wild animals. He wasn't using his sighting as evidence for their occurrence in the GTA.
Why are you being confrontational?
David
*By legitimate, I mean accurate identification regardless of origin (wild or escape), rather than a misidentification.
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One of the communication pitfalls associated with forum chatting is that any given discussion is bereft body language, facial expression, tone, inflection, etc. Perhaps this is causing folks to misinterpret?
Or perhaps because it is this person's "modus operandi"?
:wink:
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When a general discussion is ongoing don't make it personal.
Who made it personal? You'll note that I didn't question his sighting. I'm sure him and his pals did see a cougar in the Rouge. Maybe the above poster is right, and the nature of text communication makes misinterpretation easy. But if you re-read the thread, you'll see that I didn't make any personal comments at all. I merely mentioned that our only "evidence" for cougars in the rouge is anecdotal. The poster, for some reason, took this as personal.
You guys need to relax!
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Group Hug time!
:D
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I agree With David.
Is it a legitimate wild Cougar 99.9% not. Is there a cougar in the rouge valley probably 1-2 over the last 20 years. Lots of people keeps cougars unfortunately. However are they wild and will they colonize possible former territories once they are released by the ill informed owners is no. Cougar is a large top level predator that needs ALOT of room per territory and alot of prey. Legitimate wild animals have not been known for a long time. They have to re/colonize from a source wild populations which for eastern canada has not been stated. There is documented fact of grizzlies recolonizing eastward through Nunavut towards Hudson Bay. However it is very slowly. If the is a real wild grizzly in Ontario in my life time roaming the forests I will be quite pleasantly surprised. Cougars on the other hand, have not been legitimately documented. Tooo many animals are in captivity by non zoological owners in Ontario and eastern Canada. And these animals released by owners, even good intentioned owners are not true Cougars in the whole sense.
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You bring up an interesting point re: domestic cougars. In this case, however, I really do believe that there are wild cougars somewhere in the province of Ontario and that the ones in question aren't ones which have been released by their owners/handlers. Also, with regards to cougar sightings in the Rouge Valley, there are way more than 1-2 over the last 20 years. I don't know the exact numbers, but I know they are greater than that and not all of them correspond to escapes from the zoo, which number I believe 4 during that time period.
With regards to people who mistake another animal for a cougar, I don't know if I agree with that. In my opinion, there really isn't anything out there that could pass for a cougar, apart from maybe a very large golden retriever. With that being said, there are still plenty of differences between the two such as coat length, tail length, and musculature. I'm curious as to what type of animal you believe is being misidentified?
Finally, I do put a lot of faith into what the Ontario Puma Association says for a couple of reasons - they are an organization which is specific to the research of the cat and no other species of animals, and it is clear that they work closely with the MNR to find hopeful evidence of the cougars existence here in Ontario. It is the same feelings that I harbour for the Canadian Peregrine Foundation, of which I am a member.
Cheers, Attila
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Funny how when you raise a point it seems to make it into the news in short order....
Jaguar killed after escaping from Ont. reserve
The Canadian Press
BRACEBRIDGE, Ont.
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What a sickening story. An "exotic animal reserve"...when will these roadside zoos be regulated?
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Many of you know David Sibley from his superb field guides. He is a reputable birder, and writes thoughtfully about bird identification. If you go to his blog here - http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/search ... g%20basics (http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/search/label/birding%20basics) - and read the entry for Tuesday October 30, "Certainty in sight records". He makes some excellent points regarding identification/misidentification of species.
I believe this is a great example of how one's eyes and mind can "play tricks". What could some of these mistaken cougar sightings actually be? Almost anything.
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I have bin reading this string with great interest !! this type of message has come up over the years on this sight !! one I asked Andy to remove after some slanderous remarks wear mead , showing how far things can go .
But Dave has proven in his last post just how fare the wonderful world of natcher can go with playing tricks on us. If you haven’t tack in the time to reed Sibley,s (as posted by Dave ) pleas do its worth it !
and also lets keep our self’s above slander on this Index !! Pleas….all is going well so far .
Thanks again
Craig
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What a sickening story. An "exotic animal reserve"...when will these roadside zoos be regulated?
And to boot, this clown was previously charged by OMNR for keeping 5 or 6 (can't remember exact number) species of native mammalian wildlife even though he had not authorization to do so.
MNR is far too easy on operations like this. I am with you, there is no need whatsoever for this type of operation. If you want to see non-native species, go to a REAL zoo.
If you want to see native wildlife, why not consider hiking, canoeing, camping, snowshoeing....[/list]
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I agree that the last post was inapproprite and I have removed the last 2 posts from the threed !! this is the first time I have had to do this and I ask agane for all to play nice so I wont have to remove the hole post !
thanks for your help with this
Craig
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Personally, as a Lurker, I found GStuart's post funny...entertaining...one of the reasons I come to this board...entertainment. Now I can say for sure though, that the budgie was not eaten by the cougar. Budgies carry a gene that manufactures an enhanced gene product protein that is fatally inconsistent with the feline digestive system. All felines are able to detect the presence of the toxic gene product and avoid ingesting it.
We have had rumours of a cougar in Grey county for a few years now...the gentleman who heads up OPF has told me that he believes it is a dispersed male from a female in the Tara area...a local farmer has told me that the belief is that there are now 2, a male and female in the area.
I believe but cannot say for sure that I found tracks near my property that were cougar tracks...and they dwarfed my dog's tracks -- he was a neapolitan mastiff (he passed away on Dec 18). (I did find tracks...but I am not sure if they were in fact cougar tracks...no nails...they looked like cougar tracks but this was a comparison from memory a day later) and I am certain that I have heard a cougar near my home.
Now what gets me though, are the persistent rumours that "The Ministry" is secretly releasing cougars to prey on deer and wild turkeys. So um can anyone tell me why the plural of turkey is turkeys and not turkies?