Outdoor Ontario
Off Topic => Anything Goes => Topic started by: Brian Bailey on June 20, 2010, 10:38:53 PM
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Just a word of caution to birders and photographers to be cautious of where you point your lenses over the next couple of weeks. I was out shooting dragonflies (http://outdoorontario.net/birds/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=22457#22457) this afternoon in the field next to the RL Clark Filtration Plant, when a security guard approached me to ask what I was doing. He was very polite, almost apologetic, but he explained that with heightened security around the G20 meeting, using cameras with big lenses around the filtration plant wasn't a good idea. I couldn't even see the plant from where I was.
It's a good thing they didn't notice me yesterday when I was photographing the Cliff Swallow nests on the buildings! :lol:
BB
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Not bird related but a photographer friend on mine was in Toronto doing the tourist thing and taking pictures. He was stopped while taking photos at Union Station because of increased security during the G20. They made him format his memory card and he lost 3 days, and several hundred pictures, worth of work.
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I was also told not to photograph the Union Station area over a year ago. It had nothing to do with the G20. We just live in a paranoid society now.
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Hey!
There were two military helicopters at Downsview doing a little fly-bye today right at 2;30 pm.
We are used to seeing Griffon's from Trenton, these looked more like Sea Kings.
There are rumours goin around about heightened security at the old base and that we might have visitors flying in.
They have restricted all of our test flights starting Thursday.
Napper:))
I almost forgot, We spotted a C-17 this morning flying towards pearson on the way to work, was around 5:40 am
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...They made him format his memory card and he lost 3 days, and several hundred pictures, worth of work.
Apart from being over the top paranoia, I doubt that was even legal.
BB
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Hey!
We are used to seeing Griffon's from Trenton, these looked more like Sea Kings.
Probably - they're involved in G20 security. See below.
(http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq326/WingsofFuryPhotography/2010%20Waterloo%20Aviation%20Expo/CH-124SeaKingAirborneProfile.jpg)
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They made him format his memory card and he lost 3 days, and several hundred pictures, worth of work.
That is terrible! :(
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Hey!
There were two military helicopters at Downsview doing a little fly-bye today right at 2;30 pm.
We are used to seeing Griffon's from Trenton, these looked more like Sea Kings.
There are rumours goin around about heightened security at the old base and that we might have visitors flying in.
They have restricted all of our test flights starting Thursday.
Napper:))
I almost forgot, We spotted a C-17 this morning flying towards pearson on the way to work, was around 5:40 am
Napper ... you might enjoy reading through this list of sightings.
http://yyznews.com/airportlog2.html (http://yyznews.com/airportlog2.html)
Jo-Anne :)
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Hey! Bird Brain
Thanx for the link! I wasn't seeing things:roll:
YYZ 21-Jun 07-7182 C-17 USAF 437AW, AF HMN at 0541hrs
The CL-604 in with CAF decals was at Downsview all day yesterday.
There was a memo sent out to all employees today regarding in plant parking. @ 15:00 hrs Friday there will be no cars allowed inside the plant. Any cars remaining at 18:00 hrs will be removed. Our East entry gate will be shut down on Saturday.
Napper:))
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For those interested in the legality of taking photos in Canada, try this link.
http://ambientlight.ca/laws.php (http://ambientlight.ca/laws.php)
In summary, you can take pics wherever you want as long as you are public property. If someone in authority (and check out if they actually have that authority, many people are excessively officious and ASSUME authority that they DO NOT have) asks you to reformat your card
THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO.
At best they can stop you taking more pics. Pictures already taken are private property, to be forced to delete without being found guilty of something is illegal.
(BTW, apparently England has an even tougher situation).
Here's the important bit copied over from the website.
Federal Law
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees basic rights and freedoms for all Canadians. However, the Charter only dictates the government's role (ie: the police can't stop you from taking photos, just because they feel like it). The charter does not:
Relieve you of breaking other laws
Relieve you of breaking civil law (you vs. another person or company)
Dictate what you are allowed to do on someone else's property
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, 32.:
You are guaranteed the right to take photographs, and publish them
You are guaranteed the right to express yourself through photography, and you have the freedom to publish the photos you take. Unless you are arrested, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees your right to take photographs of anything you want, as well as publish them.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, 2.b):
freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, 7.:
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
No interference from Police
The Police can not interfere with your lawful enjoyment of property. They can not search you, detain you, nor imprison you without legal reason.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.
Hope this all helps.
I do a lot of photography for charities at at public events and luckily haven't yet been approached. Perhaps a trip to Union Station is in order :).
Graham
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We were told that we are on alert at the hospital, they are also using part of the parking lot for a heli-pad and decontamination tents are being set up..oh yay me..tomorrow is going to be fun!
I have never been through anything like this. We are also not allowed to bring any camera /recording devices on hospital property.
We were also told our cell phones may not work and not to get caught using them if they have cameras built in
Irene
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I'm glad I live where I live....away from the craziness...but for the licence plates, one might believe we live in the jungles of Borneo...no wait, you can get high speed internet net in the jungles of Borneo...but here in rural Ontario, 2 hours nw of Toronto, no high speed internet.
I think we have no business hosting a G8 or even G20 summit if we don't have the infrastructure for high speed internet and cell phones...they have high speed internet everywhere in India...they may not have flush toilets everywhere in India but they do have high speed interenet.
Now...about the protesters...as much as I think they raise valid points -- many of which I agree with....why do they have to conduct themselves the way they do? How many times do we see pix of really ANGRY protesters confronting a calm police officer? I don't for a minute believe that the cops are blameless for the ugliness that always accompanies these totally wasteful summits but the credibility of the protesters I think, is waning as a result of the ugliness.
Wait there's a knock at the door...I should go answer it...what are all those cops doing outiside my house?
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Well, I hope it all goes
well
and is a success!
Have many feelings on this
but will not post..
Costing mega bucks
and hope it is worth it
I am not too far from downtown
I understand the reporters up at G8 have to go home
cant stay up there
and then back the following day
Egret
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Is Union Station not private property? I understand it's overly paranoid, but I suspect that telling you to stop taking photos is entirely legal. And if someone tells you to erase your photos, you just say no. It's that simple. Don't see the issue here.
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Axeman, there were over 10,000 of us there (by a conservative count). I saw no one that was angry, screaming in cops' faces etc etc-- but I did see ordinary, peaceful citizens like myself upset or in tears at the sight of our community being take over by thousands of riot police. I hope all Canadians will ask themselves some hard questions over the coming weeks, and that includes questioning easy assumptions about protesters. There was NO reason for the cost and level of security-- all of which managed to be somehow unable to block about 100 individuals who wanted to smash things. Hmmmmmm... nothing like a burning cop car repeated endlessly on the telly to justify the bill, is there?
As for all rights, including photography-- use em or lose em. The TTC also has ludicrous rules about photography and the more people challenging them simply by taking photos, the better. By all means, don't take pics of employees without their permission-- fair enough. But I've never sought permission to take pics on any property paid for with my tax dollars. Union Station is likely leased to a private firm or administered by them but my understanding is that it's a government building. As for wiping a card-- no excuse. People are going to need to be much more assertive when someone pulls rubbish like that, including refusing to let them even see the card. Trouble is, last week this assertion of basic rights got 900 people arrested. If we don't want to see a lot more of that, we'd better start applying some pressure and that means using our rights at every opportunity.
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@Julie: The person I mentioned that had their card formatted was from Japan and doesn't have the best English. He didn't want to get into trouble and didn't know the law. I was pretty disappointed that it happened.
Talking to several friends who were taking photos last weekend at the protest it seems like it was a sad day for photographer. They were all subject to multiple searches and requests for ID; prevented from travelling around downtown; in some cases physically restrained; and generally treated as though they were criminals by the cops. I'm not a photographer but I think those that are should really take note of what happened last weekend if you want to keep doing what you love.
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Matthew,
As a photographer I can understand why you'd want photogs to be careful in what they do.
But I find myself wondering about many other matters that are seemingly being ignored, such as the following:
1. Why were people who are not accredited media following a group of anarchists who had already set police cars on fire and done damage to a tonne of property along the way?
2. Where was peoples common sense? It seems to me that people really didn't THINK about what they were getting themselves into, and are now complaining about the end results of their lack of judgement.
I knew all about the restrictions, not only downtown but at the airport as well, and felt absolutely no desire to venture close to either security zone to capture any type of image - even at the airport where all the planes were. One must respect and obey the rules of law that come with this type of event.
We are truly blessed, in my opinion, to live in a country that allows us the freedom to live in peace with out very many demands placed on our citizenry. A place where people are allowed to protest and aren't sent away forever and never heard from again. At a time like this, that is what needs to be remembered.
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Every radio station, every tv station, mentioned to avoid going downtown at all costs if it was not necessary, the general public WERE told they would be asked for ID...I personally don't think it was wise to protest even it if was peaceful...not at that time. As for foreign tourists, its a shame they were treated unfairly so to speak but when you are talking about protecting leaders of the world and the properties they are holding their meetings in..I do not disagree with the security measures taken. There are many things we have not been told about the events that happened during the summit.. A lot of the newscasters had to volunteer to be arrested to get out of the crowds, and yes even they were handcuffed and taken downtown.
My best friend works in one of the buildings that was on the outer perimeter of the "fence", they were told to work from home and NOT to come in, it was too risky. So when one of Canada's top lawyer firms tells you to stay home..you stay home right?
Everyone I saw on the tv had cameras, video cams and cell phone cameras going, as if they were expecting violence to happen..the small group that where detained weren't even from Toronto.
Its common sense...everyone can cry about being treated unfairly..but then again...they were warned prior to the events to stay away...what part of this doesn't make sense??
anyways its over and done..I'm sure the leaders will think twice before having another summit in the middle of a busy city like Toronto again.
just my 2 cents
Irene
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I think birders have a special understanding of global citizenship, because the creatures we love transcend all borders and are deeply affected by decisions human beings around the world make. I guess I feel humanity as a whole is no different.
All the people I knew who went to the protests were there because we cared about the issues-- issues that sadly got lost because 100 people out of 15,000 were total idiots. For example, I was there because the G8 has promised again and again to improve funding and ARV access for desperately poor people living with AIDS. And they've generally broken those promises. Literally hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost to HIV-AIDS as a result.... Lives rich countries like ours could have saved and didn't. Others were there because of concerns about inaction on climate change (another issue that should be important to birders!) and because of the continuing appalling levels of maternal and child health in poorer countries.
We have the right and indeed the responsibility to peacefully protest because we live in a democracy. If we don't use those rights, they will erode. And if we, who supposedly have such freedoms, cannot speak up for people who are in dire need of more and better aid, then who can? I don't plan to surrender my rights just because a bully boy like Harper imposes his jamboree on MY community for the weekend. Staying home is exactly what many global "leaders" want us to do.
As a friend told me: I am a global citizen, and today I am exercising my civic duty by protesting inaction on issues that are a concern for all humanity.
Thanks for listening.
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Hi Julie:
Yes, you have rights
and I agree
peaceful protests
and this must be allowed
My feeling, of course is
another location
should have been chosen
Best
Egret :)
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Yeah. How about an army base, for example. Everyone can bunk down in the barracks. I'm just glad it's over and we're not likely to experience another one in this city.
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The thing is, if the security wasn't as high as it was, how much more would those individuals have done? I guess you're right, it was a very very small fraction of the protesters BUT it seems to be a group that infects every summit...that single cop cruiser should not have been burned...Steve's should not have had its windows broken...
Believe me, I have no love for a police state...but I love bullies even less...so I guess I feel that the legit protesters should be as angry with the violent protesters as they are with the police and government...I may not agree with the position of protesters but I defend their right to do it...as long as its not violent.
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Steve's didn't have its windows broken, but in any case no windows should have been broken. Lots of videos emerging that show older men in crewcuts and heavy work boots, faces uncovered, stomping on police cars in a leisurely fashion with no fear of the cameras. I assume there were paid provocateurs in the crowd as it's been proven that both the RCMP and the Quebec police use them.
Couldn't agree more that it should not have been here. Toronto councillors need to be asked why they didn't block it-- or if they could have. There's some evidence they weren't even informed until after it went public.
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I had to go to Algonquin Park June 24-25. I've never seen the roads so empty, & this in high "pre-peak" season (the peak before summer holidays for people with kids). My older son went out for an evening meal near Huntsville a few days earlier--he & his fellow camp staff were the only customers in the restaurant. People near Huntsville were upset about the security fence (similar to the one in Toronto), disturbed about the planes that circled overhead all day, denied their mail & newspapers (presumably getting these out wasn't very important to the security types), and shocked at the six tanks, one posted on a hill with its guns aimed at the town.
Funny how security was warning everybody to stay away from the area, or that they might not be able to get through, or businesses might not be able to get supplies through (my younger son's graduation formal had to be rescheduled for this reason) while Harper is trying to tell our mayor that only those property-owners open for business as usual would be eligible for compensation for G20-related damage.
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So what was the final verdict on Lake Harper?