Outdoor Ontario

Photography => Ontario Birds => Topic started by: Vince on January 22, 2011, 09:07:36 PM

Title: Sharpie or Coopers?
Post by: Vince on January 22, 2011, 09:07:36 PM

This guy was chasing a dove in our backyard. The dove headed towards me behind a glass door. It turned quickly but still hit the window slightly. The hawk managed to turn before the window but the dove got away. This guy sat in a tree waiting for another meal. He eventually left.
So what kind do you think it is?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_mGRLtyQvsmE/TTuKUm1DXxI/AAAAAAAACF0/yVOmiFobf-I/s800/DSC_1552.JPG)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_mGRLtyQvsmE/TTuKgNwIFSI/AAAAAAAACF4/QQmh_s__3J8/s800/DSC_1554.JPG)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_mGRLtyQvsmE/TTuKnbU2JzI/AAAAAAAACF8/1z2pXw25Jpc/s800/DSC_1555.JPG)

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Post by: Rob'in'To on January 22, 2011, 09:20:12 PM

I've had this problem for years and still do.  And now this year, have at least one Sharp Shin and almost definitely 2 Coopers (a pair?).  The definite Sharpie is about the size of a Blue Jay.  One Coopers is taking out Pigeons every second, she's a big Hawk.  The third, thinking is a male Coopers is smaller in size but bigger than the Sharp Shin.  I know I am a big help.  

Nice pics!  How much larger was this Hawk than the Dove? :?

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Post by: Vince on January 22, 2011, 09:25:48 PM

My guess about 1-1/2 times larger. I thought it was a Sharpie by the size but most Coopers I've seen were larger than this bird.

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Post by: thouc on January 22, 2011, 10:23:11 PM

My feel is that it is a Sharp-shin, because the eyes look big (I don't even know if that's a reliable character, but I have noticed the big-eyed look in other pictures of Sharp-shinned Hawks compared to Cooper's). The hooded (Sharpie) vs capped (Cooper's) look cannot be seen from these angles and neither the rounded (Cooper's) vs squarish (Sharpie) tail.

/Thomas

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Post by: Whittam on January 23, 2011, 08:55:51 AM

Try using this web site for help in identifying Sharpies vs Coopers hawk.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutB ... Dtable.htm (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/accipiterIDtable.htm)

Cheers Terry

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Post by: Reuven_M on January 23, 2011, 09:13:27 AM

I'd guess sharpie, but it isn't much more than a guess. I doubt it is idable from these shots (they are very nice shots though, just from the wrong angle for id!)

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Post by: Whittam on January 23, 2011, 10:12:13 AM

I agree with Reuven its a real guessing game......  I'm going to say Coopers because of the following.  White tipped tail looks large vs a sharpie....  capped appearance to the head, eyes look closer to front of head,  tubular look to the body especially in shot 2, head looks large, and short squatty thick feet!  Size is very hard to judge....  and tail looks too short but......  I'll guess Coopers.  Need some DNA!
Cheers Terry

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Post by: Vince on January 23, 2011, 09:49:44 PM

Thanks for the comments. I realize from the pics it wuld be difficult. I was hoping something would stand out.

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Post by: Luv2Bird on January 23, 2011, 10:24:55 PM

I am leaning toward Whittam's guess at Cooper's ... for all the same reasons he mentions.  I carefully compared  the pictures at the web site comparing Sharpie vs Coopers to our  pics.   Also,  having seen the bird first hand it looked bigger than a Sharpie that I saw and photographed last weekat another location. That bird was smaller and was definitely a Sharpie.   Thanks everyone for your efforts ... it's clearly a challenge IDing when  Male Cooper's and  Female Sharpies  are almost identical.

Title: Mystery Hawk
Post by: Napper on January 23, 2011, 10:33:39 PM

Hey Vince

I don't suppose you got a pic of the underside of the tail feathers?

There is another tried and true way of telling these guys apart.  You have to see the underside of the tail feathers.

Coopers hawks tail feathers 12 or 6 per side are sequentially shorter from the center retrix set outward, When folded the the central set is what you see from

behind the bird (two feathers wide long and narrow). Each retrix  set thereafter is folded from longest to shortest.  You should see a progression of shorter

tail feathers from the front side of the bird. Unfortunately you can't see this here in your images.  You can see an example  in the image section of the link

provided by Whittam . In most cases  :roll: Sharp Shinned Hawks tail feathers are all the same length when folded..  



Napper:))   I think it is a Sharp shinned adult female.  But it looks like a Coopers go figure :?

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Post by: Luv2Bird on January 23, 2011, 10:39:18 PM

It's great to have so many supporters with information on how to ID this bird.  Soooo ... we still don't know for sure, since the picture is not "right".   We'll keep putting food in the feeders which attracts as many as 8 mourning doves at a time.  We'll stand by the door and hope the hawk returns  :lol:

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Post by: Vince on January 23, 2011, 10:46:36 PM

No luck with any other pics. Sure would have helped