Bird-Dinosaur Controversy

[Wingnut]

Well what do you think? Reports now say that some dinosaurs were covered in primitive feathers. Recent fossil evidence clearly shows the imprint of a feathery outline surrounding some dinosaurs. And what about archeopteryx and other winged reptile-like creatures that inhabited the Earth. Does a dinosaur leg resemble a bird's? Thoughts.......

[GStuart]

I'm sorry but what is the controversy?

[Wingnut]

I'm sorry but what is the controversy?

Does the fossil evidence support the theory of a bird-dinosaur relationship. Not sure if you're just arguing semantics or if you actually find me hopelessly amusing. Either way there are obviously those who believe it so, and others who don't. There is certainly mounting evidence to suggest a relationship. Whether or not birds are actually little feathered dinosaurs remains to be discovered. Personally I tend to think there is truth in what some paleontologists believe, that birds are the descendants of dinosaurs. Although it is hard for me to imagine that T-rex walked like a pigeon it appears that there is no doubt feathered dinosaurs roamed the Earth. I don't believe birds just all of a sudden appeared out of the blue or had a mammalian predecessor. It doesn't take much imagination to think that scales evolved into feathers.

Anyway, I was only trying to create a discussion. But if you think it is too far off the birdwatching scale then leave it alone. Of course there is also an implication that perhaps even evolution violates people's beliefs. I do not wish to engage in a religious debate and if you are offended then again , stay away. If there is to be an intelligent discourse on the subject then it might be advisable to be an evolutionist. However if you wish to state categorically that birds were somehow created by a higher intelligence or whatever then it qualifies as an opinion only and not worthy of an honest debate on the evolutionary process. IOW it helps to already believe in evolution. I say that with no offense intended to those who believe otherwise.

[Augray]

The fossil evidence does indeed support a bird-dinosaur relationship. In fact, it's a done deal, and I'd argue that birds are dinosaurs, in the same way that humans are mammals. However, feathers are not derived from scales, although there's a close relationship between the two.

And although the bones in the leg of a T-rex are arranged in an almost identical fashion to those of a pigeon, the T-rex walked differently, mainly because the tyrannosaur had a long, muscular tail. Living birds have a different center of balance.

[Ron Luft]

Some of the latest discoveries seem to indicate a 'controversy' if you like in origins. Not over whether they are related, that is generally accepted, but when the division occured. Some theories suggest that birds branched off from dinosaurs very early on thus indicating a 'root' ancestry. Personally I like this one. Other theories have suggested that birds split much later but differ as to branching. Linear evolution has been debunked in general anyway as is evidenced by findings our very own Burgess Shale deposites in BC. There have been creatures found there that exist in no other time and fit none of the known catagorizations suggesting that evolution may be more random as well as linear. In humans it is now a common theory that more than one 'branch' of our 'tree' have co-existed for a time (homo erectus & sapien). It is therefore possible that early 'bird' and pterodactyl are not linear but related only much further back. To further muddy the waters some of the newer radical theories even suggest that not all dinos were reptilian as there is evidence that some were warm blooded. Well it goes on from there. Interesting discussion though.

[Wingnut]

Ron... I would have to agree that there may be several branches of the bird evolutionary tree that are dead ends. You also make a good point informing us that birds may be dinosaurs as well as both dinos and birds could have shared a common ancestor. As more and more evidence is gathered, birds may actually prove to be evolutions best friend. Remains to be seen.

I have read about the origins of feathers and even that is muddled as experts try and figure things out. I truly believe that feathers originated on reptilian feet. I'm not sure what that scaly structure is called on a bird's(too lazy to google) foot but that was what I was trying to refer to. At some point I would think a gliding reptile evolved and things went from there.

Too bad that the evidence for prehistoric life is mostly ingrained in fossilized rock. When you try and imagine the countless life forms that existed on this planet, the fossil record barely reveals a minute percentage.