Baiting Birds
Outdoor Ontario

Baiting Birds

surfinbird

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 234
    • http://www.surfinbird.smugmug.com
There is an article in one of my photography magazines [popular photography] on taking pictures of wildlife .One photographer from Quebec named Scott Linstead recommends buying live mice and tossing them in the direction of birds of prey to get shots of the bird swooping down on them . I have many problems with this as I'm sure many of you do too . Now you know where some photographers get their stupid ideas from.
I love taking pictures of birds of prey and would like to get a sharp shot of a bird in flight which I'm not the best at . I would never stoop to this .
Robert
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by surfinbird »
surfinbird
bird is the word


Scott

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 276
    • http://www.scottmartinphotography.ca
Hi Robert,

I've been into photography for a long time (forty years) and more recently (the last two or three years) gotten excited with bird photography and birding itself as well.....have some nice bins & often go birding without a camera. I'm still working through the whole issue re baiting and at the present time don't have strong feelings one way or another, however its important for everyone to think through the issues at hand and come to a personal opinion. I noticed the ABA code of ethics posted on this forum doesn't expressly prohibit baiting and one could argue it allows for limited baiting when referring to the use of calls, and other means, of attracting birds. The issue of baiting is fundamentally an ethical one and consistency in ethics is IMO essential....so if baiting of birds is considered wrong, to be consistent, is not fishing also wrong? Some of our favourite family times with the kids is spent at the end of the dock at the cottage catching the rock bass & perch that live below (and releasing them all to be caught again the next time). I've never felt guilty fishing so have a hard time thinking that those who bait 'responsibly' are doing something fundamentally wrong.

Baiting is something we come to a personal conviction about (just like we do towards fishing, hunting, politics and lots of other things) and we live our lives based on those convictions.  We need to understand that the positions we adopt do not become the defacto truth so we need to be careful when we brand someone of an alternate conviction as a person with 'stupid ideas' that we would never 'stoop to'.

Scotty Linstead is a phenomenal photographer and I'm sure a good guy (although I've never met him). You would enjoy looking around his web site.  No doubt he has thought through the issues of baiting and we need to allow him his convictions even if we disagree with them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 03:19:09 PM by Scott »


Murray

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 81
Fish are not Birds
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Murray »


Scott

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 276
    • http://www.scottmartinphotography.ca
So baiting is not the issue at all....its the intrinsic value we place on the object of the baiting that determines whether the practice is acceptable or not.  Apparently we both value fish & birds more than worms & mice  :? Please don't take these comments as argumentative, its just an interesting subject to think about, and discussion helps us form our convictions.  Unfortunately in this area there is no universal right & wrong so we need to allow some latitude with people of differing convictions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Scott »


angieinto

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 442
    • http://www.angieinto.com/
I've been following this discussion and even talked to my partner last night about it. It really has got me thinking about it.

We've been "birding" for about six years, and we love it! It's a true passion and hobby we will have for the rest of our lives.

When we go out, we are always armed with a variety of birdseed and peanuts for the many birds and furry critters we hope to encounter. In a way, this is baiting too. Sure, we're feeding them, and  most times we leave food for them whether they get close or not. Rob likes to take pictures of what we see, and putting seed down certainly helps bring them closer, some of the time.

For me, I have a problem if people are baiting birds or any other animal for that matter, if it puts them in harms way.  But even this point could be argued. Some people think it's wrong to have bird feeders in your yard because they will become dependent on them?

I heard of a story, of a photographer who used a live mouse to attract an owl on a road once, and the owl ended up getting hit and killed. Not sure if this is true or not.  

It really is a personal choice, and I just keep the faith that the people out there trying to get close to nature and capture beautiful pictures care more about the animals and birds then the perfect shot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by angieinto »
Cheers,
~Angie

Life is Simple; Eat ~ Sleep ~ Bird
Life List to Date - 223
My Blog - http://www.angieinto.com/


ravynne40

  • Old Timer
  • *****
    • Posts: 1060
    • http://www.flickr.com/ravynne40
i'm not sure where i stand on this either, am i guilty of feeding birdies.oh hell yeah..i fed chickadees, i have fed swans bread (omg bread??) !!
when i reported the trumpeter swan to the wye marsh, a kindly gentleman called me to thank me for reporting the swans, and gave me a history on each of the swans, i then asked him about feeding them, and told him there was a couple feeding them some bread, the gentleman told me that although it is not part of their diet, that it will not harm them and compared it to humans eating potato chips... A treat basically
but the swans travel great distances and never really become dependent on human food, but they relate human to freebie food.(he said if you feed them bread make sure it was whole grain which i found amusing)

but mice for owls...i don't have the heart for it ..seeds and bread..yes..even when fishing i use rubber worms and i will be quite honest i have never caught any fish LOL!(i don't fish anymore btw)

As for bird feeders...if i had a back yard i would definitely want one. They had bird feeders at Amherst Island before we walked into Owl Woods...there's someone from parks and rec that feeds the birds at Lambton woods by spreading suet over the trees...need i say more? i don't believe it is wrong or right
...i just view it as giving mother nature a little boost/help/treat.
just my thoughts for the morning.
Irene
(who thinks its bad to think too much before at least one cup of coffee)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by ravynne40 »
Dream, fly, soar and believe!  http://www.flickr.com/ravynne40


mr.sharp-photo

  • Guest
i think that if one thinks through it logically, one would see that baiting is against what birding's about.

first, bird feeders. one can argue that an in a big city environment, bird feeders play an important roll. it provides birds with food, especially during the seasons where its harder for them to find nutrients.  i'm  not sure about you guys, but the birds that come to my feeder are still incredibly hesitant and fearful of people and don't let me come close. therefore i would consider my behaviours to not be harmful to the birds.

feeding birds food by hand. i've done this at Cranberry Marsh, where it seems like its the norm. it also is done to non-migrating birds like nuthatches, chickadees, etc. feeding water foul by hands is not good. it prevents winter migration and may make some species (e.g. Canada geese) more aggressive. take a look at the winter mess in Lambton Woods to see what hand-feeding water foul does. the 100 birds that live in the tiny pond don't venture south for the winter because they are kept plump with non-nutritional bread. if this happened in parks all over toronto, you would have some sort of ecosystem or breeding gap that would be detrimental.

baiting.  we've talked about the kestrel at Sam Smith and how peculiar its behaviour is. that's the key: a change in behaviour. if birds relate humans to food, it changes how they act. it probably reduces their desire to hunt and it does put them at risk simply because humans are stupid animals. we do things without worrying about the consequences.

i had a chance to see the barred owls in Presquile Park twice. both times, i marvelled and wondered how the hell i could get within 15 feet of a barred owl, yet snowy owls fly away if you are 100 feet from them. from what i understand, the answer is: baiting.

my final question/point is: just like fishing, isn't the fun of birding/bird photography to be able to catch a bird or scenario that's out of the ordinary? my personal "got it!" moments involved a great story. tying a mouse to your tripod and trying to time a bird's killing swoop is not a great story. it actually makes for poor photography.  hey, why don't i remove a stop sign at a major intersection, set up a camera and wait for the ensuing car accident? that also would make for a great picture!

intelligence-wise, you can't compare birds to fish. i personally don't understand or participate in sport fishing, but fish are quite stupid and, for the most part, quite plentiful. you see a kestrel or 2. you see a hawk or 2.  you don't have 10 000 in a small area to capture (on film).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by mr.sharp-photo »