Bird ID help

[rgboy]

Hello folks. I took these pictures in Mexico. Any help to identify these birds?





Thanks to all

[Margaret]

I suggest brown thrasher for second pic. as the eye looks yellow.
When I was at the Rio Grande previous winter I was fortunate to see the long billed thrasher which has an orange eye and longer beak. (see Kaufman, Birds of North America.)

[Mark D]

The second pic looks like a northern mockingbird to me.

[Tyler]

First Off where were you in Mexico?. I ask that for there are a few species of Mockingbirds in Mexico.

Initial thoughts

pic 1) do not know the actual size of the bird. So I have to say it looks similiar to grassquits(small) and Saltators(cardinal size)

pic 2) Looks Like a Northern Mockingbird from first look and not knowing where you went.

[GStuart]

caveat:  I've not birded in Mexico... I just look at pictures in guides.

The first picture is closest to a female Yellow-faced Grassquit.  The pale yellow throat surrounded by black, the pale spectacle and lores, the thick bill, the lack of wingbar:  all point to this identification.  However, my book shows that the overall colour of the bird would be somewhat darker.  The Buff-throated Saltator has a white throat and yellow on the upper chest with a heavy black "V" on the chest.  Also, the Saltator seems to have a noticeably longer tail.

The second picture certainly looks like one of the mimics.  I think we can rule out the thrashers by the clear breast and the catbird by the contrasting wings and belly.  The Socorro Mockingbird (formerly Thrasher) still has some light streaking on the flanks and is only found (so far as I can tell) on one remote island.  The Blue Mockingbird is, well, blue.  Which leaves Northern Mockingbird and Tropical Mockingbird.  I can't tell from the picture which of the two it might be.

[Carl-Adam]

The 2nd is a Tropical mockingbird.

[Tyler]

I agree 100% with G Stuart about that being a yellow-faced grassquit. I do not see how Carl can eliminate Northern Mockingbird. I have worked in various places in Mexico on Parrots and seen every mockingbird species there except the socorro bird.  I have seen yellow-faced grassquits in the same area as both Northern and Tropical Mockingbirds. This Mockingbird Picture I do not see clearly either the thin darkish line of a northern or the more pronounced facial disk of a tropical. From the Angle shown and the lack of knowledge of where the picture was taken I cannot say with any certainty which species it is. If I had to wager a bet from what I see and know I would lean more towards Northern than Tropical

The white wing patches seen in flight are great source for speciating these birds. Perched birds  from this angle are very difficult to speciate.

[Carl-Adam]

I dont think Northern mockingbirds have a dark tail bar like that? I could be wrong. It is always fun to have a good challenge.

[Lloyd]

How about Yellow-billed Cuckoo for bird number two. The overall size and shape looks right. Note the markings on the underside of the tail. The photo doesn't clearly reveal the lighter lower mandible but the habitat is right.

[Tyler]

After looking at alot mockingbird specimens today at the ROM Carl-Adam is right the mockingbird in question is most likely a Tropical Mockingbird. Once I figure how to upload a photo into here I will post a comparison of a Yellow-billed Cuckoo, Northern Mockingbird and Tropical Mockingbird.

The Dark bar near the top of the undertail is relatively standard in the Tropical Mocker. However it can range from a dark black band to a gray band slightly darker than the rest of the white tail. Northern Mockingbirds can also have a dark band in this area but it is not a robust or as common as in the the Tropical. Northern mocker tails if a band is present it is usually gray colour.

As for Yellow-billed Cuckoos they have an under tail consisting of a series of dark and light bands

Cheers

    Tyler