"Birders" against "bird photographers" =

[denis]

well stated yogi! i for one,having just bought a 500 mm lens + 1.4x extender,so i could get a decent photo,whitout getting TOO CLOSE ,agree a 100%,with you.but you know you cant please all the people,all the time.we,as humans should know better,but given enough iddle time on our hands,you can be sure,we,ll come up with all kinds of reasons to complain about one thing,or another, and if you dont mind,i would like a link to your FLICKR! photos,so i can enjoy your great photos!
denis

[strimackus]

Strimackus - his reference isn't to gay sunbathers, but rather to gay people who engage in copulation in the bushes - a public act of indecency regardless of whether one is gay or not.

And yes, it does take place over at the islands.

With regards to everything else you mentioned, it isn't a matter of "keeping" areas to ourselves, rather it is about ensuring that those, especially those who enjoy birds in particular, act with a certain amount of respect not for ourselves but for the sake of the birds.

The one thing that concerns me the most is the question of how close is too close...with respect to "mammoth lenses" and their minimum distances, we talk about 10ft or more.  I'm 6'0" tall, and to envision someone only 2 of my body lengths away from an owl with at least 1' of lens added is still, in my opinion, too close.

I understand the concept involving full frame shots, but with that being said, with cropping and every other option available to us in post processing, I don't see the need to get that close to a bird.

Attila

Attila, you've clearly missed my point. I'm well aware what goes on at the island and, while I don't have any issue with it, I understand that some people might. My point was that if Norm wants to warn people, which is understandable, he can do it in a way that isn't derogatory.

I probably shouldn't have brought up my second point. I'm obviously all for conserving our parks and have nothing but great things to say about the vast majority of birders. I was just venting about some negative experiences I've had with a few birders. But my comments were out of context and probably misdirected. So, I apologize for that.

Who would have thought there'd be this much excitement on a birding board...

[Anonymous]

Yogi - I stated that it's an act of public indecency REGARDLESS of who does it.  The post that Norm made, which was the post which was referenced, had to do with that particular topic, which is why I addressed it and then made the blanket statement towards anyone who does it - not just gay people, but straight people as well.  And as for what is "inappropriate" or not, it isn't a determination made by myself but rather the law of the country that we live in.

Sorry if you took offense to it, that was hardly my intent.  I work with and have gay friends who I interact with on a daily basis and we get along just fine, thanks.

As for your comment about lenses - I agree.  With that being said, I have seen photographers with 500mm+ of lens get too close to birds and birders who make more noise than anyone else along with getting too close to birds that they're trying to look at.

But in my opinion, and my opinion only, 10 feet from a saw whet is still too close.  Just my opinion.

Attila

[accwai]

[...] As for your comment about lenses - I agree.  With that being said, I have seen photographers with 500mm+ of lens get too close to birds and birders who make more noise than anyone else along with getting too close to birds that they're trying to look at.

But in my opinion, and my opinion only, 10 feet from a saw whet is still too close.  Just my opinion.

Well on the Canon side, the MFD of 500 is 14.8 ft, 600 is 18 ft and 800 is 19.7 ft.  Nikon would probably be similar.  With a 500 on a 1.6x body at MFD, a saw whet owl would nearly fill the vertical side of the frame.  But in practice, a 500 is seldom used without a TC on anything but very large or very tame subject.  So the actual shooting distance would be even further.

But technical details aside, I agree with your sentiment.  In this particular case, I think people need to behave responsibly but also have a little bit of compassion towards others.  If not, little misunderstanding would deepen into a great big chasm.

Andy