Why the animosity?

Jaedon · **on:** January 24, 2007, 06:26:44 PM

I have been reading the forum over the past few days in order to familiarise myself with it and I have noticed a few from teh Birders side who make no efforts to hide their disdain of photographers. It makes me wonder why.

My birding interestis mainly because of my photography hobby. I hae been interested in birding since my grade 5 teacher Mr Inkpen (yes that is his real name) taught us nature conservation and took us on birding walks in the valleys and ravines in the west end of the city (Weston road and Finch areas). Recently I have discovered my love of photography and combining the 2 interests just seemd a natural transition.

Now it seems to me that a person watching birds through binoculars and a person observing through a long camera lens are doing the same thing.... the photographer simply has the ability to share with others what it is thay have seen via the images they capture.

I can understand that as in all tings there may have been encounters with people of questionable ethics on both camps but in essence aren't we all doing the same thing and enjoying our love of nature?

I have run into some birders trample into habitats to "get a better look" as I have seen photographers to the same to "get a better angle".

Is there not a happy medium to be found? Surely not all birders can be lumped into one category just as all photographers should not be.

So if I see you out there enjoy the day , keep birding and having fun, but don't run away from me just because I have a camera.... the birds make much more interesting subjects anyway.

surfinbird · **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:12:03 AM

I think it's because some photographers are idiots and the same for a few birders and this causes a little tension .

JTF · **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:50:01 PM

As a photographer, whether professional or rank beginner, we tend to stick out like the proverbial "sore thumb".

Consequentially, our actions tend to be noticed very easily. As a photographer, you are held to a higher standard of behavior than the average person and therefore must conduct yourselves accordingly. Using some common sense, it boils down to two things. First, always place the bird's needs before your own. For example, a truly successful photographic venture will not cause a bird to flush, keep it from its nest or expose it to predators. The second rule is to show courtesy to others. This includes fellow birders or photographers, as well as respecting property rights and park rules.

The advantages of being an ethical photographer is that you will come away with natural looking photographs, and the personal satisfaction of having captured an intimate moment in a wild animal's life without causing it undue stress.

In summary, remember as a photographer you will stand out from the crowd and your actions will be judged/remembered more severely than others. Setting a good example will pay dividends. Others may be more willing to share birding opportunities with someone that they feel confident will keep the birds best interests in mind.

PS: I never use a flash when photographing birds.

Tom Cudzilo · **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2007, 06:46:57 PM

Quote from: "JTF"

PS: I never use a flash when photographing birds.

big mistake

JTF · **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:42:24 PM

Why? Is it common for bird photographers to use a flash. The only reason I don't is I thought it could scare the birds or in the case of owls effect there eye sight.

Walter Sobchak · **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:58:48 PM

Quote from: "JTF"

Why? Is it common for bird photographers to use a flash. The only reason I don't is I thought it could scare the birds or in the case of owls effect there eye sight.

I agree. If you are close enough that a flash will actually work, it will scare the bird away.

Wulff · **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:48:56 AM

Ive heard the stories. Have yet to actually expereince any firsthand.
Some people are discourteous, rude, unthinking, confrontationa, etcl regardless of their pursuit. So in my opinion its not a "Birder" vs "photographer" thing. Its a people thing. There good and bad across the board and no "group" can claim the moral high ground.

Yes, some "people" probably go too close to bird X in an effort to get a picture.
Yes, some people proably tresspass, step off trails in order to see bird x better with their scope/binoculars

Yes, some people bait birds of prey in order to get better pcitures
Yes, some people put out seed, play tapes in order to better see birds

I wonder if some chickadee has ever fallen to some hawk/cat at someones feeder?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Where do you draw the line? At the gas and damage we all do to the enviroment? How good is it *really* for the birds that thousands of "birders" and "photgraphers" will flock to some park to see some rare bird?

Bootom line imo.
Theres good and bad in across the board and noone is without sin

Anyone even trying to claim moral high ground is deluding themselves. So all thats left is how you as an indiviaul treat other "people".
Theres good and bad in each.
________
Ipad guide

JTF · **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:08:40 AM

Perfectly said, excellent post.

Kin Lau · **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:43:29 AM

Quote from: "Walter Sobchak"

Quote from: "JTF"
Why? Is it common for bird photographers to use a flash. The only reason I don't is I thought it could scare the birds or in the case of owls effect there eye sight.

I agree. If you are close enough that a flash will actually work, it will scare the bird away.

Flash works well if you know what you're doing. Lookup the terms "flash extender" or "better beamer". We can continue the explanation in "Equipment & Technique" forum if you'd like.

The following Northern Parula was lit mostly by flash. It actually came much _closer_ as I was shooting it.

With waterfowl, many flush if you use flash. Likely due to it's resemblance to small arms fire.

Jaedon · **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:53:05 AM

Thanks Wulff. You summed up my thoughts very concisely.

I agree that it is more a people thing than a "photog vs. Birders" thing but when reading through the various birding boards I have come across there always seems to be this underlying mistrust of one faction towards the other (usually against the photographers).

I cary a copy of birding ethics in my pocket when I am out as a reminder to myself and to hand out to people whan I see they don't have a clue. I try to get the best shot I can from the furthest distand possible in order to leave the disturbances to a minimum. And my favourite expression when it comes to Nature Photography is a quote I read in a National Geographic magazine when I was a kid (still haven't found who said it) is "Take away memories and leave only footprints"

MY whole reason for this post was to open a dialog so that there is communication and to try to do something to reduce this animosity.

I hope to see you guys in the field on day. I'll even share the images with you off the camera if you want to see them.

Jay

surfinbird · **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2007, 12:19:06 PM

Now wouldn't it be interesting to have a nature or birding photography club , you would have all the ethics of a birder and the know how of a photographer.[I must admit that I need alot more know how.]
Rob